...and then tell some interfering douchebag to fuck off...
AND THE WHOLE INTERNET EXPLODES IN YOUR FACE. OK like 4 guys, but it felt pretty... Nope not even that. It was a pointless argument, but it brings up a relevant point.
*Almost no swearing at all!! Some science, in a dumbed down kind of way. Because big words are for other blogs.
Belief. And Faith actually, but less so because Faith is so much more obvious in it's intransigence. More importantly then, Belief (with a capital B) as it relates to not believing. Atheism and Agnosticism. Of which I am one, it will become obvious WHICH one shortly.
Someone with a huge following made this statement (DISCLAIMER: at the time he was asking people for philosophical discussion so I was not just being a dickbag in bringing up my dissension): "We're ALL agnostic as no one KNOWS any gods exist. The Faithful BELIEVE anyway. Athiests don't believe because there is no evidence" I couldn't entirely agree, or in fact at all really. But my main problem was: Agnosticism is about not believing in any God, for lack of evidence - it's also about not believing that there ISN'T a God for exactly the same reason. Is it part of a system of beliefs? Debatable. I think it is, though as a borderline thing. It's about beliefs rather than being sunk in them like other belief systems. But on the other side of the coin, believing or disbelieving in a God is STRICTLY about belief, so from my perspective if you are a Theist or an Atheist you cannot be an Agnostic. Quod erat demonstrandum. Sort of thing. If you look at it from outside the belief network and judge Agnosticism as SOLELY the 'fact' of the lack of any knowledge to prove or disprove the existence of God, then I can nearly see Quoters point. Nearly. And I only shy away from it because I think it's rubbish. I am an Agnostic (there we go). I have no evidence for the existence or non existence of God. I strongly suspect that there is no God, but I accept that this is quite possibly just a combination of my general skepticism, misanthropy and distrust. I am not built for Faith. I am built for SCIENCE. Science tells me I cannot make a judgement call on this one. And I don't have the bullheadedness to declare that I simply don't believe in God. I'm not a fence sitter because I'm scared it might turn out that there is a God, I'm not a fence sitter to avoid arguments (D'uh). And I'm not a fence sitter out of laziness. I'm a fence sitter because it is the correct place for me to be. Lack of proof either way is sufficient to keep me on the fence. The only point at which I can nearly take up Quoters flag is that, I continue to sit in the middle of the fence despite a slight personal preference for the edge.
Quoters attitude is that to NOT be an Agnostic requires proof, my problem with this is the assumption that belief has anything at all to do with facts. It just doesn't. Get over the idea that we are ever going to have a logical fact based discussion about religion, because it is NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. People become far too emotional when you start jerking the chain of their religion. Even Atheists. Even Agnostics, which I find very weird - even as I was getting mad as a cut snake (to be fair I was mad at perceived numbnuttery rather than at an attack on Agnosticism, which didn't exist). The idea being that we are all agnostics (because there is no proof) and then add our own flavour of belief on top of that. Sadly Agnosticism is no more a fact than any of the other ideas people have about religion. I have more than enough of a sciencey brain to understand that a lack of evidence is not strictly a definitive lack of evidence. It's a perceived lack of evidence. In days to come we may find evidence in things that are staring us in the face right now, in days further along we may prove that that evidence is complete rubbish. SCIENCE, IT'S FUCKING GREAT. This is why even the things that we think of as FACTS are still called theories in science. Because we just never know when that bastard Hawking is going to disprove the bloody lot of it. The sun will very likely rise tomorrow. I'm prepared to buy sunscreen on this basis. Will it also one day go boom and make sunscreen an outmoded concept? Also very likely. Do we know when? Not really. We have some educated guesses, but it's mostly shot in the dark material. Chances are the sun is going to continue to rise everyday until long passed the point where man has to worry about it. Or it'll come up tomorrow and then give us all the worst sunburn ever. Or the universe will beat it to the big FOOM and therefore the sun will not technically have died at all but rather have been murdered in the easiest to solve mystery ever.
It's very difficult to put this concept across, which is probably some of where Quoters problem also lay. He's a smart guy whom I have enormous respect for. I can see his point, I can see my point. Write either of them down so I don't sound strange in the head... less easy. I am an agnostic. If you tell me to then add my flavour on top... I AM AN AGNOSTIC FLAVOURED AGNOSTIC. I'm starting to sound weird again. I'm going to phrase this in terms of belief. I am an agnostic. I believe that there are insufficient facts for me to make a decision on the existence or non existence of God. I have many friends who join me on this page. I have quite a few friends that are on the Atheist page, and I'm fine with that. My assumption is that they have decided that the lack of evidence either way inclines them to believe that there is no God. That's cool, I can see that as reasonable. I have a much smaller number of friends who are Theists. I assume they have chosen to see the myriad of wonder in the universe and believe in a higher powers hand behind it. Also cool. I can also see that as reasonable. Saints preserve us I think I didn't do to badly defining that lot. (Sorry.)
Religion; it's what you do with it that matters. It's not inherently a good thing or a bad thing, humans take care of that part. Because quite a few of us are dicks. Atheists and Agnostics are not exempt from being dicks here either, it's still sort of a religion. And dicks are everywhere. Theist Religion currently seems to have a stranglehold on dickishness, but that's really just because it's had a head start. Atheists are catching up on the loud and annoying front. And should any country ever declare itself an Atheist or Agnostic state I'm sure they'll dick it up just as much as everyone else does. (Note; an Atheist or Agnostic state is DIFFERENT from a secular state.) If you ask me what I believe in the most, I'll tell you that it's that humanity is capable of being considerably better than it most often is. There is so much BULLSHIT in this world that could end if humans could put aside their selfish greed. If we let compassion guide our actions in all things. The right thing isn't always the best thing, but the wrong thing never is.